Karting1.co.uk

[Alan Dove]

Over the last few months the karting world has changed both physical, and philosophically. The major change has come in the form of the new generation KF engines, which show a change of direction for karting and the way we think about it. No longer are high revving 2 stroke kart engines what the CIK, and manufacturers want karting to be. Instead, top flight karting is to be aimed at the ‘leisure market’, where comfort, longevity and ease of use is a priority over pure racing.

Vincent Caro, CIKFIA Secretary, has said that himself-

“This is not supposed to be a pure racing engine, but a user-friendly engine. The aim is to bring on the market, from the usual kart engine manufacturers (who are mostly focused on racing only) an engine that will be suitable for hobby drivers too, which is not the case anymore with the current 100cc engines.”

Taking influence from the hugely successful Rotax MAX, the KF generation engines were born. However, the very philosophies that surround the new generation engines are exactly the same as the philosophies that surround a move to 4 stroke karting.

Could it be that this generation of kart engines, and the way they have been marketed by the CIK, be just a way of making the manufacturers and competitors feel more at ease with a move to 4 stroke karting in a few years time? The CIK are already half way there with drivers and manufacturers sounding more and more like 4 stroke karters (not that I have anything against 4 stroke karters by the way) everyday, praising the long life, and ease of use of the new engines.

When the CIK moved towards 4 stroke a few years ago the objections were fierce, but will those objections be the same in 3 years time when the CIK move towards 4 stroke again. By then the 4 stroke wouldn’t be such a radical change from the new engines in terms of the way we think about karting, and will probably be hailed as a ‘natural progression’ from the current engines.

With the FIA President, Max Mosley, pushing for a move to 4 stroke there is no doubt that the guys at the top want 4 stroke to come in, and KF could be a perfect way to soften the blow for when they do make that ‘its going 4 stroke’ statement. In fact we could say 4 stroke karting is already upon us.
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[kai]

Maybe you’re onto something here.
It certainly is odd that “new” 4-stroke designs appear to be popping up all over the place, and none of them are selling! Are these people all foolish dreamers, or do they know more than we do? Why otherwise all this betting on 250cc, single-cylinder 4-stroke?

[Alan Dove]

There is certainty that guys at the FIA want karting to be all 4 stroke... and KF1 is a 'compromise' between the manufactures and the CIK. But the way the CIK is forcibly changing karting's philosophy (well in theie eyes) leads me to believe they want 4 stroke in fast.... and the leap from KF1 to 4 stroke is much smaller than the leap from 100cc to 4 stroke.

And you are right Kai, there does seem to be plenty of 4 strokes hitting the market ready to take on whatever changes may come.

Hey, it could go wankel though...u never know!
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[soundcityracing]

Leave karting as the purest form of motorsport!

Forget 4-strokes, forget beefy rear bumpers, forget seats with headrests, and forget about changing karting!

There is nothing wrong with 100cc engines and although I haven't driven a KF1, the 100s give you such a buzz.

With the KF1 at nearly £2000 for the engine - it can hardly be called a "leisure" sport.

I know some people do it for fun and some do it for winning, but with a 100 costing around £1000-£1200 and £2000 for a chassis, plus everything else it soons adds up. add £800 to that and that's £800 wasted just for an engine that revs lower. and can cost upwards of £7000 for 1 season!

Do you think F1 teams build their engines that can exceed 19,000rpm and last 2 race weekends just to cut the revs down to ease life?

The top range of engines are designed to rev high so let's use them as and what they were designed for.

If the CIK want to make karting a leisure sport, ban the KFs, Rotax's etc. and lets use Honda lawnmower engines instead. Oh here's an idea, lets tell F1, F3, GP2 etc.. to use road going car engines to slow them down for safety purposes and to cust costs.

Karting is a motorsport, and motorsport is competitive and expensive. It is also fun. We don't need to spend £800 more just to have an engine that maybe goes a tenth or 2 quicker. Keep it as it is, and if no-one can afford the costs, then go TKM or Rotax (which I'm sure is very competitive in it's own series)

My rant over and yes there are some sarcastic comments which are intended.

[The stealth]

Venox, Spot on dude,

[Alan Dove]

Spot on Venox...but I have sarcastic comment number 1 for ya

[soundcityracing]

Hehe. If the CIK want to add 4-strokes into the equation, don't replace what already is a successful series of racing.

World formula is 4 stroke right??? If so then that can be the new 4-stroke series, which I'm sure nearly every 100/KF1 racer would choose the 2 stroke any day - as you say, for its simplicity and ease of use.

If you look at the engines being produced both 2T and 4T, you'll find that 80% or so are 2T's.

On that basis - why change to 4T?

Is it cost saving? No, because manufacturers have to spend money developing and testing new engines. The price of the KF series has proved that you aren't paying for new technology, but for those crappy things called alternators, and starter motors which add weight, which means you need more power, which means more to go wrong, which means more money to put it right when it does go wrong.

Do you think the CIK are reading this? I hope so...

Edit: Although I say that KF engines are a waste of time, knowing he karting world, I will probably have to fork out for one soon enough.

[Alan Dove]

Well the FIA want 4 strokes because of the environmental factor. Even though changing to 4 stroke would completely DESTROY the whole point of karting.
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[kai]

4-stroke might destroy karting as you see it now, but it’s not going to stay the way it is no matter what else happens. If motorsport continues at all, it will have to be lower noise and other emissions as well as longer life etc. It would still be fun motorsport, just different.
Also following on from a thread “elsewhere”, I think that from an outsider’s perspective and therefore in the interest of attracting new blood, two-stroke does not look like the answer at all: too fussy, too smelly and, yes, too unlike anything else these days; too yesteryear - says he running after having pulled the pin.

[The stealth]

[Alan Dove]

I don't personally feel bump starting puts people off! It wasn't a problem 20 years ago, and most vehicles had starter motors. I think its the perceived easiness of TaG which puts people of bump starting. If TaG didn't exist I don't think bump starting would be 'an issue'.

Let's look at MotoX for example. The giant move to 4 stroke was maybe not a major change as it would be in karting, but people still use 2 strokes. A lot of people! They are so much simpler for the dads to mechanic on.

At budget level 4 stroke is fine, but in high competition where 10ths count the added complication of making a 4 stroke would quadruple costs.
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[The stealth]

[Karter125]

Frankly its bollocks!
Im generally so pissed of at the people in charge of karting these days they seem to have there head stuck so far up each others arses they cant see what the fiddlestick all the karters want!
I agree its a general progression, have you noticed the prices to they generally go up as well, the kf1 is an expensive engine, then the 4 / will be an extra 500£ and on and on!
Whats the big bleedin problem with 2strokes? 100cc rule, and its not exactly rocket science to keep them going or that expensive, it should be about speed and competiveness, not all this arrive and drive bollocks, alot of the tracks in the U.k are slowly becoming corperate places, thinking of the money and not the sport,
Buckmore for instance, 95% of the days are for there crappy karts so some corprate fat cat can come bumble around with hes little fuddling bum chums!
People go on about noise and the planet and how bad two strokes are, well 4/ are fuddling noisy youve only got to go near one to work that out, and im not talking about those poo like lawnmower engines!, and eco friendly, well is a 100cc that you blast every other weeknd worse than your stupid wife driving those massive wagons all week, blocking the fuddling roads and generally being a pain in the arse?
Everyone needs to tell them to stick there grand money making plans up there ass, stick with 100cc or Tkm extreme, theyll soon cotton on to what the market wants to do when there big fat greedy pockets arent being lined!
If you want leisure, buy yourself a mgf or some other tart mobil and go for a drive on a sunday, just keep the frig away from ruining a great sport!!

[Kart4fun]

[quote="Karter125"]............Whats the big bleedin problem with 2strokes? 100cc rule, and its not exactly rocket science to keep them going or that expensive, it should be about speed and competiveness, not all this arrive and drive bollocks, alot of the tracks in the U.k are slowly becoming corperate places, thinking of the money and not the sport,
Buckmore for instance, 95% of the days are for there crappy karts so some corprate fat cat can come bumble around with hes little fuddling bum chums!.............
quote]

I admire your passion....but i hope you realise that without the " crappy corperate 4 strokes" ..you would most likely not have any tracks to race on !
Unfortunately, there are few track operators who can survive commercially without the corperate /rental kart business, and obviously that business is 99% 4 stroke.
Further, i personally suspect most of the karting "industry" ( retailers and manufacturers) would have gone under in the '80's -'90's if the good old "Pro-kart" (Honda) had not made its appearance to boost the karting scene.
Just understand, 100cc 2 stroke is a MINORITY section of the sport. Yes, it has been the "pinacle" if the sport , but not the mainstream.
Also be aware that worldwide, 4 stroke karters outnumber 2 stroke karters by a large ammount...
PS ...I run 100cc 2 stroke.

[The stealth]

Kart4fun

I like you attitude, you should run for prime minister, maybe the country would get sorted out too.